Since taking office in January, President Donald Trump has taken steps to fire numerous leaders of independent regulatory agencies, as part of a larger effort to bring federal agencies under White House control. To explore the implications of these removal actions, the Penn Program on Regulation hosted a historic conversation [LINK TO VIDEO] featuring nine independent agency leaders against whom the President has taken action: Hampton Dellinger (U.S. Office of Special Counsel), Susan Tsui Grundmann (Federal Labor Relations Authority), Todd M. Harper (National Credit Union Administration), Cathy Harris (Merit Systems Protection Board), Alex Hoehn-Saric (U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission), Travis LeBlanc (Privacy and Civil Liberties Oversight Board), Rebecca Kelly Slaughter (Federal Trade Commission), Richard L. Trumka Jr. (U.S. Consumer Product Safety Commission), and Gwynne A. Wilcox(National Labor Relations Board). The panel, co-sponsored by PPR and The Regulatory Review, was moderated by Cary Coglianese, the Edward B. Shils Professor of Law and PPR Director, and introduced by Matthew Lee Wiener, Visiting Distinguished Lecturer of Administrative Law at Penn Carey Law.
What follows are reflections on the event, written by Michael Herz, the Arthur Kaplan Professor of Law at Cardozo Law School, who is also a PPR Distinguished Visiting Faculty Affiliate this term.
The nine panelists showed great camaraderie and mutual respect and affection. Each was able to laugh at the unexpected and slightly absurd sequence of events they each confronted, and it was a treat to get a glimpse of the personal side of events of this historical moment. But ultimately the PPR panel, “The Last of the Independents?,” was a very serious event, reflecting the unprecedented situation and high stakes of the underlying legal dispute. Not surprisingly, each of the panelists is a staunch believer in agency independence.
Although the opportunity to listen to the panel members share their stories and perspectives was extraordinary, it was also, in a way, demoralizing. All of the panelists showed themselves to be dedicated public servants—smart, competent, diligent, and happy to stay out of the limelight. In other words, they are just the kind of individuals who one would want at the head of a federal agency. Whether or not the firings were legal, everything we heard at the PPR panel event indicated that the firings were foolish.
Almost all the panelists are now in court, fighting to hold onto their jobs. Existing precedent is absolutely on their side, but whether that precedent will stand is in serious doubt. It looks like the writing is on the wall (or, more precisely, the writing was in the per curiam Supreme Court opinion staying the lower court judgments in the lawsuits filed by panelists Gwynne Wilcox and Cathy Harris). The independent regulatory commission—which began with the Interstate Commerce Commission in 1887, blossomed during the New Deal, and has been a fixture of the administrative state ever since—will likely go the way of the dodo. The panelists are fighting the good fight, and the exact contours and extent of the Supreme Court’s ultimate decision remain to be seen, but independent agencies are on the ropes. The PPR panel was thus a unique opportunity to capture this extraordinary moment – one both unprecedented and, whichever way things go, unlikely to be repeated — and reflect on the implications that it holds for the nation’s future.
Michael E. Herz is the Arthur Kaplan Professor of Law at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law at Yeshiva University and has been spending the Fall 2025 term as a distinguished faculty visitor at Penn Carey Law.
